not sure on type...any help

[Jessed22]

I found this base the day before yesterday and im not sure as to what type it may be to....Clovis...Plainview....just not sure...any opinions would help...it was found in South Tx in Zapata Co.

[MidlandMan]

Welcome from Austin. I do believe you have a nice Golondrina base. Late Paleo in age (ie: ca. 10,000 years BP)

[Jessed22]

thank you for the reply...i haven't had much feedback on this base anywhere else...i guess it had some people stumped!

[MidlandMan]

I picked one up just like it in Webb Co.a few years ago and I've been looking for the upper end every time I go back! Thats a good sign that other Paleo material is in the area. Best of luck. Oh and if you ever need a huntin' partner let me know. Zapata is famous for cool artifacts!

[John G. Scoggins]

I have to agree with Golondrina.Looks like some of the examples from the Wilson Co. Sand pit.Good find.

[seco]

Based on the size,the base, and most importantly the parallel oblique
flaking, I would have to say it is St. Mary's Hall. It is particularly
like a couple from the type site in San Antonio, as well as a specimen
from a Gillespie County site. But they extend into south Texas very widely.

If you look at the St Mary's Hall points posted on the web, you won't
see much of the basal concavity. Most with that feature come from campsites where manufacturing and refurbishing is going on. Indeed, in
our 3rd ed.(2011) of Stone Artifacts of Texas Indians,we should have done a better job on showing this part of the range of the type.

TRH

If you have metric measure, or calipers, could you post the length,
width, and the thickness? See how it fits into my database!

[MidlandMan]

The depth of the basal concavity is what threw me off along with the shape of the basal concavity. I should look at the one I found in Webb and see if I need to revise my typing of this particular point as well. I have a couple questions Seco, is previously accepted Golondrina distribution effected by the relatively recently described Saint Mary's Hall type as many points previously typed as Golondrina may be more accurately placed into the new taxon?And what is their relationship as you understand it at this time?

[seco]

Golondrina points are younger than SMH, based on Wilson-Leonard dates and new dates from Brackenridge
Park. There is no confusion with Golondrina, I don't think...aside from the basal concavity seen on some. What
is clarified with SMH typology is the elimination of 90% of "Plainview" points found in central and south Texas! There
are a few points that resemble the type site Plainview, but overall, I really doubt it has much meaning as a "type."

SMH typology does not alter Golondrina distribution in the slightest. Except for the rare overlap, found in practically
all "typology", Golondrina is distinctively different from the distinctive traits of SMH -- especially the parallel oblique
flaking. After reviewing SMH and Golondrina extensively, for the 3rd ed. of Turner, et al. 2011, I don't see any
changes needed or necessary as a result of the identification of Golondrina points -- most reclassification
involved points called Plainview, some Angostura (not many), and God forbid, "Levi."

TRH







QUOTE=MidlandMan;227818]The depth of the basal concavity is what threw me off along with the shape of the basal concavity. I should look at the one I found in Webb and see if I need to revise my typing of this particular point as well. I have a couple questions Seco, is previously accepted Golondrina distribution effected by the relatively recently described Saint Mary's Hall type as many points previously typed as Golondrina may be more accurately placed into the new taxon?And what is their relationship as you understand it at this time?[/QUOTE]

[Mojave]

Well Seco, you said the "L" word. What are the points commonly referred to as that? They look like Plainview to me.

[Mojave]

Oh and here is an obligatory SMH...
W=2.18 cm
T=0.74 cm