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  1. #1
    Banned
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    For those who are 'seeing things'....

    All those who are in the know can I guess at least partially read paleo language, here your presenting to an audience that can be very negative to claims of figuration, and suspected iconography.

    To those who do not understand/believe these figurative claims the pictures posted mean little. Topology is your only weapon of proof and the only way to expose paleo language to the non believers as facts. Here is a little about some work I have been doing to prove figuration in my lithic assemblage.

    Categorizing the assemblage from my site is a very daunting task, here are some initial results.

    The pictures show worked finds from my site, points were selected and placed upright, then points with similar visual characteristics were placed alongside, to some degree.

    Everything is worked, all bar one are flint, the vast majority of the stones qualify as blade tools.

    Statistics can be produced on qualifying features of any recognized topology.

    This is not the whole assemblage of points from my site, as more are added better topographical data will only add credence to some quite obvious findings.

    What topology? if he says 'points'...I'll BL^%&Y K%&L HIM!
    I cannot as yet give you any accurate statistics, much more work needs to be done, but here are some common qualities to look out for at the tips of the points:

    Double chevrons, chevrons, inverse Y shapes, marks, chips, spots, sculpted bobble shapes.

    Proof of a topology of shapes incorporated into the tips of the points.

    Suggested interpretation:- hooded and cloaked figure.








    Last edited by RollingRock; 03-11-2018 at 03:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Junior Relic Hunter
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    Sounds flakey to me.....

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  4. #3
    Elite Arrowheadologist
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    The gut feeling I have here is that you are an amateur, with no real background in Paleolithic archaeology, working in isolation, sort of creating a theory without input beyond yourself. Of course, from the start, you have in fact been seeking input from the members here.

    Most of the members here, myself included, have some knowledge of prehistoric archaeology in the Americas in general, and probably our own locations/regions most of all. Few of us are professionals working in Paleolithic archaeology, either in North America, or elsewhere in the world. But we are no slouches when it comes to recognition of artifacts. You will always get honest opinions of your finds based on the considerable knowledge base, and considerable experience with artifacts, represented by the membership here. Most of us are hunters/collectors with lots of experience handling and examining artifacts, to varying degrees, since some are indeed only just starting out, and some have decades of experience under their belts. And our knowledge of Paleo studies also varies, some of us far more knowledgeable then others.

    Some suggestions that might prove more fruitful for you would include enrolling in archaeology courses, where you can show your collection to professionals, and gain their opinions. You could locate professionals working in Paleolithic archaeology and submit photos of your finds to them, expose them to your ideas, or even show such individuals directly if that is in any way feasible, and see what they have to say.

    There is always something to admire in people who display courage in their convictions. But oftimes, at least I have seen it time and again on artifact forums, folks with such convictions, when failing to gain confirmation in their finds or beliefs, decide the only option is to not pay one iota of attention to the opinions of those they are trying to convince, and instead decide to plod on undaunted by negative reactions, certain in their belief that they are right, even when it amounts to working in isolation and reinventing the archaeology, and assuming it is only a matter of time before more and more people realize you were right all along and concede that fact.

    Since that is unlikely to happen, and not to ever dismiss or minimize the knowledge and experience base present on this forum, I would suggest you reach out to the pros who actually deal in Paleo studies for a living, to see what they have to say regarding your finds and your ideas. Working in isolation sometimes works when the person working that way is an unheralded genius in the making, seeing things with fresh eyes, and able to revolutionize a discipline if only they can attain the attention of people working in that discipline. So why not see what such people have to say? That may be a better option then paddling upstream against an extremely strong current.

  5. #4
    PhD in Arrowheadology
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    Well said CMD

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  7. #5
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    That you are showing artifacts (results of purposeful human modification of natural material) is undoubted.

    The issue is whether these were made to accomplish specific objectives (i.e., were made and used as tools) or primarily (if not exclusively) as tangible expressions of abstract ideas.

    Their role as tools can be demonstrated by use wear analysis. The symbolic claim is insusceptible to confirmation. As such it remains in the realm of personal belief which, maintained beyond a certain point, becomes tedious.

    (This last is not addressed to you, personally -- we've been through this any number of times).

    FWIW
    Premature certainty is the enemy of understanding.

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMD View Post
    The gut feeling I have here is that you are an amateur, with no real background in Paleolithic archaeology, working in isolation, sort of creating a theory without input beyond yourself. Of course, from the start, you have in fact been seeking input from the members here.

    Most of the members here, myself included, have some knowledge of prehistoric archaeology in the Americas in general, and probably our own locations/regions most of all. Few of us are professionals working in Paleolithic archaeology, either in North America, or elsewhere in the world. But we are no slouches when it comes to recognition of artifacts. You will always get honest opinions of your finds based on the considerable knowledge base, and considerable experience with artifacts, represented by the membership here. Most of us are hunters/collectors with lots of experience handling and examining artifacts, to varying degrees, since some are indeed only just starting out, and some have decades of experience under their belts. And our knowledge of Paleo studies also varies, some of us far more knowledgeable then others.

    Some suggestions that might prove more fruitful for you would include enrolling in archaeology courses, where you can show your collection to professionals, and gain their opinions. You could locate professionals working in Paleolithic archaeology and submit photos of your finds to them, expose them to your ideas, or even show such individuals directly if that is in any way feasible, and see what they have to say.

    There is always something to admire in people who display courage in their convictions. But oftimes, at least I have seen it time and again on artifact forums, folks with such convictions, when failing to gain confirmation in their finds or beliefs, decide the only option is to not pay one iota of attention to the opinions of those they are trying to convince, and instead decide to plod on undaunted by negative reactions, certain in their belief that they are right, even when it amounts to working in isolation and reinventing the archaeology, and assuming it is only a matter of time before more and more people realize you were right all along and concede that fact.

    Since that is unlikely to happen, and not to ever dismiss or minimize the knowledge and experience base present on this forum, I would suggest you reach out to the pros who actually deal in Paleo studies for a living, to see what they have to say regarding your finds and your ideas. Working in isolation sometimes works when the person working that way is an unheralded genius in the making, seeing things with fresh eyes, and able to revolutionize a discipline if only they can attain the attention of people working in that discipline. So why not see what such people have to say? That may be a better option then paddling upstream against an extremely strong current.
    Very well said.

    RollingRock, where are these from? You say "over the pond" so is that England, France, Germany, etc? I see a few in there that may be Tools but I don't see anything that I would classify as a Point.
    "Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends, we're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside."

  10. #7
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    (US and European definitions of "point" differ widely)

    FWIW
    Premature certainty is the enemy of understanding.

  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by uniface View Post
    (US and European definitions of "point" differ widely)

    FWIW
    I realize that.
    "Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends, we're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside."

  12. #9
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    You're one of the few here who (I would guess) do, then.
    Premature certainty is the enemy of understanding.

  13. #10
    Savant Banjo Picker
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    So what do Europeans consider points if not "arrowheads" (knives, arrowheads, spearheads)?
    Terry (a.k.a. Dances With Dachshunds)

 

 

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