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  1. #1
    Junior Relic Hunter
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    Solutrean Theory

    Does anyone subscribe to the Solutrean Theory being presented by Dennis Stanford that people followed the Atlantic ice bridge from southern France to North America 23,000 years ago? Ice covered most of Europe and North America except for the southern most portions. The reason I ask is that I have seen numerous large bi-faced artifacts with fine edge work and thinning where the shaft would be hafted being catagorized as preforms. Most but not all are found in Florida, southern Georgia, and other gulf coast areas which would have been ice free at the time. Also these artifacts are usually found among mammoth bones and teeth and other ice age animal evidence.

  2. #2
    PhD in Arrowheadology
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    watched many of his discussions...
    When you are riding in a time machine way far into the future,
    Do not stick your elbow out of the window, Or it will turn into a fossil.

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  4. #3
    Junior Relic Hunter
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    The thing is, if these are finished points, out dating Clovis points by thousands of years and are expertly classified as preforms, they are relatively inexpensive. So just in case Mr. Stanford is on to something and one is found embedded in an ice age extinct animal bone, I am collecting a few (by collecting I mean purchasing). The ones I think are finished spear points are identical to un-fluted Clovis points except much larger. Bigger game bigger weapons, same as now, 30-06 caliber for deer, larger caliber for big game. Also one point I would like to make on this theory is that if all Native Americans came across the Alaska land bridge from Asia, why is there for every one Clovis point registered found west of the Mississippi River, there are 100 found east of the Mississippi. Seems to me that the natural progression of things would build up populations from west to east if that is the case instead of the opposite. I can post some photos of two I have picked out if anyone is interested.

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  6. #4
    Elite Arrowheadologist
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    I'm sure folks would enjoy seeing your pieces.

    I just want to point out, were you to do a google search along the lines of "Solutrean theory arrowheadology" you will discover many threads from over the years where members have discussed the subject. Including the possible reasons for the greater numbers of Clovis points in the eastern states.

    As well, early dates in South America and the ascendency of the so-called Kelp Highway hypothesis for entry into the Americas has undermined the ice free corridor route in recent years. I believe this article might have been posted to the archaeology section of the forum recently:

    Most archaeologists think the first Americans arrived by boat. Now, they’re beginning to prove it | Science | AAAS

    I guess one point I would want to make is that the peopling of the Americas is a complex subject, and, IMHO the most exciting frontier in American prehistory at the moment. And it has opened up with the erosion of the "Clovis first" paradigm. You can find a wealth of articles online that will discuss the Solutrean hypothesis as well as criticism of that hypothesis. Including threads right here on arrowheadology, as well as scholarly articles, videos, etc.

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  8. #5
    Relic Hunter
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    I would also love to see pictures of your points. Measurements of length, width and (especially) thickness would be a huge help, if possible.

  9. #6
    Elite Arrowheadologist
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    Last edited by CMD; 08-31-2017 at 02:46 PM.

  10. #7
    Elite Arrowheadologist
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    Page 2 of this older thread has a photo of the east coast bifaces assigned to Solutrean by Stanford. Joshuaream posted great photos to this thread as well, but, alas, they suffered from the recent photobucket purge:

    Photos from PaleoAmerican Conference

    One of the east coast bifaces was found in a Providence, RI collection, purchased by Jack Hranicky, and is regarded as one of the finest:

    Boats Blade Paleo Biface Cast

    Solutrean Theory-5987a816-5810-4fd5-b2cc-079e3ab0bbf6-202-0000001cb4cf660f-jpeg

  11. #8
    Senior Arrowheadologist
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    Thank for aggregating this in one place.

  12. #9
    PhD in Arrowheadology
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    I think it's very likely that there were multiple points of entry. I don't agree with bigger game bigger points though. There is a point of dimenishing return on point size. Even with an atlatal the human arm can only generate so much force. Heavier spears with heavier points increase kinetic energy at lower velocity, but at some point you run out of enough velocity to be effective. Larger, wider points require more energy to overcome friction when penetration thick hides, bone, and muscle. When working with a weapon with limited kinetic energy you are better off reducing friction with a smaller point to achieve deep penetration. Penetration into vital organs is what kills. It doesn't take a big hole in a lung, liver, or heart to create enough blood loss for a rapid death. Look at the size of the Buffalo the Folsom Cultur hunted. They are the pinnacle of this thought process. Thin, relatively small points were being used on Buffalo much larger than the ones we know today. Most Clovis points are not really large. I'm. It saying there aren't big ones out there. I am taking averages. I think those big blades and bifaces were being used to process animals. A mammoth is a big animal and requires big tools and a lot of scraping. If aboriginal people found Australia 50,000 years ago, there was certainly group of people roaming around all
    Over the world on foot and in boats.
    I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.

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  14. #10
    Tribal Council Member
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    Solutrean hypothesis: genetics, the mammoth in the room

    Stephen Oppenheimer, Bruce Bradley and Dennis Stanford

    Abstract

    The Solutrean hypothesis for the origin of the Clovis archaeological culture contends that people came from south-western Europe to North America during the Last Glacial Maximum. This hypothesis has received numerous critiques, but little objective testing, either of cultural or genetic evidence. We contest the assertion that there is NO genetic evidence to support this hypothesis, and detail the published evidence, consistent with a pre-Columbian western Eurasian origin for some founding genetic markers, specifically mtDNA X2a, and some autosomal influence, found in ancient and modern Native American populations. The possibility that the inferred pre-Columbian western autosomal influence came more directly than through Siberia is not even considered in such studies. The mtDNA X2a evidence is more consistent with the Atlantic route and dates suggested by the Solutrean hypothesis and is more parsimonious than the assumption of a single Beringian entry, that assumes retrograde extinction of X in East Eurasia.

    Solutrean hypothesis: genetics, the mammoth in the room | Charlie Hatchett - Academia.edu

 

 

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