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Thread: Central New York Artifacts

  1. #1
    Junior Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    CNY
    Posts
    39

    Central New York Artifacts

    Hi everyone. Totally new, randomly stumbled across this site today, wish I had known it existed earlier. Me and a good friend do field hunting in the central region of New York State, ancestral home of the Six Nations (Iroquois). He has some of the best collection of pottery and arrowheads I've ever seen, mostly from the field directly across the street from his house. We've done a lot of independent research utilizing mostly William A. Ritchie's book. While it's a bit outdated, the sad part of the truth is there probably hasn't been a professional archaeology dig in this area in over 50 years. This particular site seems to be unknown to the professional archaeology crowd judging by the abundance of both surface pottery,arrowheads, and even celts and neck pendants. Furthermore, the time period of the points seems to span thousands of years. Very interesting. I've attached a couple of shots, one of his many display cases and a points found in-situ and a close-up of the partial neck pendant (or bannerstone...). Any comments, typology, etc welcome! Hope to contribute more soon!
    Matt



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  3. #2
    MikeE
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Maine
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    429
    Hey Matt
    Sorry I didnt see this post earlier. You have a nice group. I see the Laurentian group represented by your items. They were a dominate group during the middle archaic in your area and most of the NE. Some of the types you have were made by the Susquahanna Group of about 3000bp. These guys are thought to have moved into the area from points south during the final stages of what Richie called the archaic period. There is alot of speculation now about this time period and what happened across the region to cause so much change in the evidence. Groups up and disappear and new completely different groups become dominate.

    I am going to guess that there is water nearby your site, as I also see the shapes I see near water and streams, in my area.
    thanks for sharing
    M

  4. #3
    MikeE
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Maine
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    Rock His second row is full of the Perkiomen, or the first three for sure and the others look like Snook Kill's several brokes and susquahanna broads in the first row looks like and a smattering of Otter Creek side notchs being earliest. Some nice fish spears and maybe just one Astabula base which kind of means little western or ohio influence...I am seeing the Penn influence but I am not seeing the Lamoka's evidence like you had. It would be great to know if he found net weights but with the pottery also mentioned I am thinking more terminal archaic. materials look good for a central NY collection

    Unfortunately NY state has become a very collector unfriendly state. The tribes and their strangle hold on the political A-holes in that state are the worst. jmo
    m

  5. #4
    MikeE
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    Maine
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    Nice, I agree Rock but the side notches you show look more Susquahanna, row three and Matt had a few Otter Creeks, atleast from here they look that way.
    M

  6. #5
    MikeE
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Maine
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    429
    I hear you Rock, though the guys hands look like Farmer hands so he is probably working mostly, I know that is what keeps me off this site. To busy and tired. Snow storm helps
    M

  7. #6
    Junior Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    CNY
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    Hey guys - No didn't get disgusted, just busy! Anyway, a bit more background...Ritchie did a dig where the pottery came from. It's technically in the same field, but immediately bordering the ancient riverbank. It appears to be a midden pit, because interspersed with the pottery is bone and shell. My friend and I have found bone awls, harpoons, worked beaver teeth, huge freshwater clam shells, etc. The river today is about 150 yards away from the site. The area where the pottery comes from (at least in our opinion) represents a different distinct period of time - maybe right around traditional Iroquois culture, pre-contact. Here is my meager collection of the pottery stuff we found:

    Much of this gets kicked up by burrowing animals, but there's still pottery lying on the ground undisturbed.

    Now - the field is where we find probably 90% of the arrowheads, celts, pendants, etc. From basic understanding of this area (Cross Lake, NY), it has been used as a major inland waterway since Paleo times. My friend may have one or two Paleos from a hill overlooking the river, but we mostly find what we think are some Lamoka - which is common in pockets here in CNY - onto Susquhanna, Levanna, Perkimonn, Jack's Reef - in short, seems like an amazing area that was used for thousands of years, over and over again. Here's my few arrowheads from the immediate fields..

    Notice burnt bone harpoon pt upper right. Also, some exotic cherts/quartz found in the area too..
    It's a fascinating place, one I wouldn't mind to see a full dig take place to figure out how many years really it was used and what for.

    Anyway! Good to be back, thanks for the insight thus far, can't wait to consult some books - any other ideas?

  8. #7
    Junior Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    CNY
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbuster View Post
    mchaplin
    Nice finds and a sweet variety. Can you tell us about the material and give us a cameo shot of the corner notched ones?
    Welcome to the site. NY artifacta are fairly rare here. Can you tell what might be Onandaga? Normanskill?
    Mike-- Are you refering to Lamoka? Do you think he should be finding some net weights? His frame looks a lot like some of mine from the Deleware River in NJ. Of course that river actually originates in the Catskills upstate NY.
    Lots of Onondaga

  9. #8
    Junior Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    CNY
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    hmm, did the other element I try to post in here have to go to approval because it had images in it? Hope it didn't get lost

  10. #9
    Junior Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    CNY
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    So anyway...before the other one got lost or modded...most of these finds are within about a .5 square mile area. The pottery and arrowheads/chert/celts/pendants we believe represent two different settlement periods. Ritchie described the pottery site, midden pit, lots of bones. We often find worked beaver teeth, giant freshwater clam shells, snails, awls, and bone harpoons close to where the pottery is found by the ancient banks of where the river ran. When animals dig on the old banks, they also can kick up pottery and bones, but much of the pottery is lying on the ground in plain sight. The arrowhead are found in the adjacent field - and they seem to cross a large cross section of history. Below are my feeble collections compared to the amazing ones of my friend in the pictures above.

    To answer another question, yes, we have found net sinkers, this site is about 200 yards from where the modern waterways flow, in the Cross Lake area of Central new York. As I understand it, this was a major waterway even in Paleo times. My friend has found 2-3 probable paleos from a hilltop nearby. We seem to have found everything from Lamoka (common up in these certain areas of CNY) Brewerton, Levanna, Jack's Reef, etc, etcAny input - welcome!!

    Notice on the arrowhead shot top right - a burnt tip to a bone harpoon. Amazing finding that as a surface find. My friend has a bigger, fuller one. Bunch of exotic cherts too we come across...red, striped, bluish...seems like this area might have quite the history...

    Last edited by mchamplin; 02-01-2013 at 07:46 PM.

  11. #10
    PhD in Arrowheadology
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
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    4,138
    Awesome artifacts and thank you so much for the pictures and valuable information. May I ask who owns the property?
    I fear a housing development or worse.

 

 
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