Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome! Arrowheadology.com is the #1 arrowhead and Indian artifact community on the web. Join us now!

Likes Likes:  18
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43
  1. #11
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    so cal
    Posts
    6,673
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hopefully some people knowledgeable, on point style, can weigh in to help Al N Dale on his potential purchase

  2. Likes Al-N-Dale liked this post
  3. #12
    Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Southern Illinois
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like
    Major Flaker,

    Thanksó I didnít mean to stir up a controversy here!

    I havenít purchased the pointó yet. I could get my money back if itís fake, but donít know if I want to go through the necessary rigmarole to find out.

    As for laser dating. I donít have enough information to weigh in on that one. However, I did spend over $1000 on two Clovis points with Breckinridge spectrograph papers a couple years ago, and Dwain Rogers struck them both down. Iíve heard some unflattering things about Dwain, but in the conversations weíve had Iíve come to a deep reapect for his opinion. That said, I know he and all the other authenticators out there are fallible.

    Alasó whatís one to do when buying out of region?
    Last edited by Al-N-Dale; 10-10-2018 at 09:25 PM.

  4. #13
    Tribal Council Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Central Pennsylvachia
    Posts
    5,646
    Post Thanks / Like
    re. Cumberland characteristics -- unable to copy/paste illustration;
    http://asaa-persimmonpress.com/doc/n...cumberland.pdf
    final illustration (fig. 38). Six varieties over time.

    re. laser
    All sediments and soils contain trace amounts of radioactive isotopes of elements such as potassium, uranium, thorium, and rubidium. These slowly decay over time and the ionizing radiation they produce is absorbed by mineral grains in the sediments such as quartz andpotassium feldspar. The radiation causes charge to remain within the grains in structurally unstable "electron traps". The trapped charge accumulates over time at a rate determined by the amount of background radiation at the location where the sample was buried. Stimulating these mineral grains using either light (blue or green for OSL; infrared for IRSL) or heat (for TL) causes a luminescence signal to be emitted as the stored unstable electron energy is released, the intensity of which varies depending on the amount of radiation absorbed during burial and specific properties of the mineral.

    Most luminescence dating methods rely on the assumption that the mineral grains were sufficiently "bleached" at the time of the event being dated. For example, in quartz a short daylight exposure in the range of 1Ė100 seconds before burial is sufficient to effectively ďresetĒ the OSL dating clock. This is usually, but not always, the case with aeolian deposits, such as sand dunes and loess, and some water-laid deposits.
    Quartz OSL ages can be determined typically from 100 to 350,000 years BP, and can be reliable when suitable methods are used and proper checks are done. Feldspar IRSL techniques have the potential to extend the datable range out to a million years as feldspars typically have significantly higher dose saturation levels than quartz, though issues regarding anomalous fading will need to be dealt with first.
    The uncertainty of an OSL date is typically 5-10% of the age of the sample.
    Luminescence dating - Wikipedia



    Presented with a forced choice, I'd go with the laser reading. Reason : many good fakes have fooled authenticators. But if anyone has come up with a way to create bogus osl readings, I'm unaware of it. That would take some really sophisticated lab equipment, & the payoff wouldn't be commensurate with the difficulty and expense.

    Again as always, FWIW
    Premature certainty is the enemy of understanding.

  5. Likes Al-N-Dale liked this post
  6. #14
    Elite Arrowheadologist
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Too Far From The Plains But Still In Texas
    Posts
    1,759
    Post Thanks / Like
    Al-N-Dale I've seen a few old Cumberland points and corresponded with the person you mentioned when it came time to sell the big one I owned. It's on this site somewhere for you internet sleuths. I like the point. Do you have any cross section shots? It shouldn't be Folsom thin. FWIW

  7. Likes major flaker, Al-N-Dale liked this post
  8. #15
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    so cal
    Posts
    6,673
    Post Thanks / Like
    You are all good here A N D. I donít believe there is a perfect science on authentication. Much of it is ďpersonal opinionĒ. I do respect though those who can do the math and say this doesnít add up based on hands on knapping experience....this though is fallible as well. No perfect science when it comes to authentication. Really bothers me though seeing legit finds get cut down and obvious fakes papered as legit

  9. Likes Pointhunter79, uniface, Al-N-Dale, rddalto liked this post
  10. #16
    Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Southern Illinois
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like
    Uniface,

    Thanks for the article; very helpful indeed! If only I could hold and examine the point...

  11. #17
    Tribal Council Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Central Pennsylvachia
    Posts
    5,646
    Post Thanks / Like
    Note that these evolved from thick, el Jobo type points with bases beginning to be thinned through "Cumberland" varieties and into Beaver Lake (thin) and the ancestor of Folsom at the NW end of its range. Cumberland was a continuum -- not a fixed type like Folsom or Lost Lake.
    Premature certainty is the enemy of understanding.

  12. Likes Al-N-Dale liked this post
  13. #18
    Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Southern Illinois
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like
    I appreciate all the advice and info! Here's more pictures. It's thick; from what I've read, Cumberlands are always on the "hefty" side. It's also got one of those asymmetrical flutes on the backside.

    It's a bummer a prospective buyer has to go through this; I love this hobby and hate that it's been tainted by profiteers.
    Attached Images Attached Images Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-17-_small-jpg Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-14-_small-jpg Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-7-_small-jpg Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-18-_small-jpg 

  14. #19
    Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Southern Illinois
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like
    ....Annnnddd those pictures are garbage. Sorry 'bout that!
    Attached Images Attached Images Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-14-jpg Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-7-jpg Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-17-jpg Any Cumberland experts out there?-fp391-18-jpg 

  15. Likes Pointhunter79 liked this post
  16. #20
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    so cal
    Posts
    6,673
    Post Thanks / Like
    Wow....that knapper sure rode the wave on those flutes!

 

 

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •