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Thread: Recent Clovis

  1. #81
    Graduate Arrowheadologist
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    Awesome. Of course, the reason many points on here (and other places) get second-guessed is that something doesn't look right, or there are red flags. The Old Timers (in age, or experience) are apt to express doubts if something looks wrong or seems wrong. I'm not exactly an Old Timer, but I've looked at a few Clovis points, a bunch of fake Clovis points, and a ton of pics of Clovis points. For me, there are no red flags on this one. In fact, it looks exactly like a REAL Clovis point, not like some knapper's idea of what a Clovis point should look like. I'm not arrowhead-religious, but this point just screams "mammoth killer." As a couple of the guys already said, I'd be dumbfounded if an authenticator found a problem with this one.

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  3. #82
    Tribal Council Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
    400 bone sir...(?)

    and a little help discerning between real and fake (size notwithstanding):
    . Swamp , that big ole * clovis is obviously a repoduction . That lack of patina in flute termination is baked on . Having said that , i could reproduct and knapp that one in about 20 minutes , minimum . You members of the lil " cult " in texas and oklahoma are obviously delusional . If ole clayton or lyle want to send me 200.00 , ( up front ) and ill hop right on it and post the results here on the " cult's website . Cuz crain of the famous etx raiding crain gang wants a piece of the action send me 200.00 also . I do have to have all $ recieved before i start , I'm not cheap but am affordable !, hop in boys !
    Last edited by Panola; 04-20-2017 at 06:49 AM.

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyle nickel View Post
    ...When the Clovis appears....yeah, things are a lot more serious, and I'm not a good poker player. I'm running through everything in my mind. What's the material, is the material correct for where I think provenance to be? Is it flaked correctly for a Clovis from that area? Is the fluting right? Is the grinding correct and is the grinding patinated? With the Clovis it was actually fairly easy because of the heavy color changing patination on the one face. Just had to make sure it wasn't some acid, stain, or chemical treatment, which was pretty obvious, it was not. It was also obvious the Clovis came out of a sand blow. Beautiful patina that I love to see on old artifacts. So its not just the color change on the one face, but also this nice, even sand patination that is on both faces. I looked at the patina with a loop and made certain it is real, and not some rubbed on or sprayed on treatment. If need be, wash the point and see if that patina changes. With everything else being correct, seeing a correctly patinated surface, I'm in, I'm game. There are also natural deposits on both sides that can only be seen with more magnification...
    Dang it Lyle, I got goose bumps reading that!

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  6. #84
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    The main thing that I have learned about Texas Edwards is that it does not patinate under and through the hinge fractures like we expect for Eastern points, especially Paleo. I see nothing questionable about this beautiful Clovis. It has flaking, form, and patination characteristics that place it into the "no-brainer" column in my world. Congrats on the find!!

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  8. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuaream View Post
    Comments like this make me wonder why people come here if they find it so painful...



    Arrowheads, as I look back on your posts you have made some rather informed and astute observations on a couple of threads, but you also seem to have a disdain for the members of this forum.

    Lyle certainly doesn't need your approval, or our approval on his collection and I don't get a sense that he pops in to share things to feed his ego; he is already well respected and recognized by many collectors and professionals for his knowledge. 25 posts in, I can't say any of those things about you.
    A wise old friend once told me, "Be hard on facts, don't be hard on people. If the facts are hard on someone, that's their problem".

    My only interest is the point. Not 'Lyle'. The evidence itself. Not the perceived reputation of whoever is presenting it. This forum is giving a master class in how naive people think about things and why there's always a group of suckers who, when it comes time to buy a used car, buy the "story" more than the car.

    The point speaks for itself. I guess what this boils down to is whether or not anyone knows what they're actually looking at. In a church of believers it's hard to tell them that their angels don't really exist.

    They get angry and lash out but the truth remains.

  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyle nickel View Post
    Thanks Josh. I still get excited to handle true high quality relics. I just wanted to share this experience and this relic with others who I knew would also appreciate it. Honestly, if "Arrowheads" was here, I could show even him, WHY you can say this point is totally, without question authentic. You can actually make strong if not overwhelming determinations on most relics if you know the lithic, the context from which it came, and are very familiar with the patina from the area. If you live with rocks from the area,... you can get good. If you can't tell, just walk away. I just don't know how to shoot pictures through my microscope. Microscopic evaluation totally validates it,.... but it is blatantly authentic before you even put it under the scope. If you are familiar with the material and the natural surface patination from the geographic area. I bought the Clovis while sitting in the front seat of a car, with a 10 power loop. I felt comfortable doing so, because of the large number of artifacts I have handled from the same area.
    lyle
    Seems you got hosed. Bummer.
    I'd love to see your microscopy but do beware. You're talking to someone who knows what they're looking at. Most of this forum can bumble around and say "I TRUST LYLE" and something about a 'troll' but the bottom line is that 1) LOL that you think the point is 'blatantly authentic' without magnified surface examination 2) when it comes to those microscope picture, they will tell the story and in me, you're talking to someone who knows what they're looking at... meaning that the bull**** theories that are common around here do not fly.

    I welcome your evidence.



  10. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pastmeetspresent View Post
    I would really like to see this site adopt a policy where if the original poster, Lyle in this case does not ask for an opinion from fellow members then fellow members should keep derogatory comments to themselves. Lyle wanted to share something, he did not ask for approval or opinions in this case. It appears that his level headedness has prevailed to keep the peace - it is called being civil. Congrats Lyle - integrity is more important than anything IMHO.
    This is a good example of how believers in irrational nonsense shield themselves from valid criticism.

    If his point were credible, he wouldn't be receiving criticism. Since the knowledge base around here seems to be, lets call it "beginner oriented", it's not like anyone else is going to speak up and tell the truth but all of this is moot.

    Here shortly, he can post pics from his scope and we can go from there.

  11. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointblank1 View Post
    The cheap talk came from you Arrowheads...........

    "There is absolutely nothing in that picture I, personally, couldn't duplicate in a few hours with a replica point and High School level chemistry knowledge and I'm by no means a professional or vocationally interested forger. "

    I was just asking you to back up what you boasted about being able to do.
    I built the home I live in.
    If you accuse me of lying and claim that I cannot build a house, should I then build a house to "prove that internet guy wrong"?

    You people are on the wrong side of fact, not me.
    Doesn't matter if you circle the wagons and talk about how 'trustworthy' Lyle is. It seems that Lyle may have gotten ganked, but his scope pics may tell.

    Poor Lyle.

  12. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by latrans View Post
    The discussion over this Clovis aside I would very much like to see what you could do in terms of making a replica point look as authentic as possible. This might be one of the more intriguing ideas that has come up on this site recently.
    All I'll say on that is I'm very tempted to 'prove my point' (no pun intended) in a way that will leave certain believers quite embarrassed and/or speechless.

    Whether I get enough free time/interest and energy rounded up for the sake of an internet discussion with a group of what appears to be a lot of naive shnooks, that is to be seen.

    But I might.

  13. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    I know what I know through many years of study and hands on experience, and your insinuation that you can somehow quantify what I know is a testament to your ignorance/stupidity. Go back to your camp under the bridge!

    Coming on this forum and letting your mouth overload your a$$ speaks volumes!
    I can quantify what you know based on what you say and believe.

    Completely.

 

 

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