Beware means Be Aware. This IS happening in your state, to your sellers and buyers and wholesale destructionists. Make no mistake about it.
02-28-2013 06:46 AM
Tribal Council Member
People like this ruin it for all of us. Despicable.
Moots, I think you hit the nail on the head. Money is certainly a factor for many people, but what I know from 4 names on the list, they are not motivated by the money. They certainly qualify as dealers, but that's simply turned into a vehicle to get rid of all the stuff they find to get to a great specimen and all the collections they buy to get a few pieces they want.
Originally Posted by mootsman
The other end of it is that people are too proud of their finds, at the last Florida show I went to a guy who I had never met previously (online or in person) was quite comfortable bragging about river finds from that year.
I do agree with Jon's point, this is a dangerous ratcheting up of collector laws. Most of the laws have been playing defense, with this arrest they went on the offense and invested time/strategy in targeting some of the bigger collector/dealers.
Tribal Council Member
What is the reasoning behind making it illegal to collect from river beds. It would make more sense to me to have a permit system like they have done for fossils. And maybe have a voluntary feedback system to get some idea of what gets found. Artifacts will never mean anything rolling around in the bottom of a river unknown to anyone.
Restrictive laws won't solve these problems associated with collecting. Of all the people I have run across that collect it is very rare to find someone in it for money. And in my area they won't be in it for money long you can't find enough to pay for your gas and vehicle expense much less anything else. I met three collectors this week that all work together, but don't share the hobby with others, don't sell, and don't won't strangers like me to even see what they have found in the last 20 years. And that's pretty typical. There are already plenty of laws that get ignored. New ones will just add to the list of what gets ignored. There is an effective system in my area now to register and protect burial mounds which is good except we will never learn more than we already know about those cultures. And the few remaining perishable bones or artifacts will eventually disappear along with the story they have to tell.
Another backwards idea is punishing landowners or developers for having sites on their land. The recent article about an Egyptian company buying land in Iowa and having to pay for survey and excavation work is just one example of how those situations get dealt with. In most cases, certainly when federal funding is not involved, the developer will quietly bulldoze any suspected discovery to avoid delays and expenses. Seems to me businesses and individuals should be rewarded for preserving finds not punished into preserving them.
Throw the book at 'em
The reasoning behind the prohibitions are not aimed at casual collectors surface hunting and cooling off their feet after a day hike or what ever...
Also like the article stated, the perpetrators were dredging and excavating in rivers and land. Toppling trees and fouling streams, digging big holes and stealing artifacts, basically looting the public domain.
They had that basic system for years, the isolated finds program, but as I understand it very little was reported in the final years. There was also a particularly rabid anti-collecting person that got control of the board and drove out any use of common sense. I guess I've been lucky that I've never found a nice relic while screening for sharks teeth, but it seems absurd to me to reasonably expect people to throw an arrowhead back in the water. I've tossed flakes and pot shards back, because I see enough FWC people on the water and my desire to avoid commiting a felony, but how realistic is it for a tourist to know they have to throw back a rock?
Originally Posted by Palmwood
Most river collectors down here were fossil hunters first and artifact hunters second (since fossils are far more common than artifacts) so it's not like the number of people hunting the resource has declined... It to me is as random as saying that you can drive 75mph in one color shoe but not another, or that you can drive drunk on beer but not on vodka. Metal detecting is also weird. I can stand in water off the beach and shovel and sift for teeth until my hearts content, but it's illegal to disturb the sediment if I have a metal detector.
Florida is a weird place, and it fills up with old people & canadians for half the year.
Just to make a point clear, I don't agree with people digging on public lands... I agree, they deserve what they get. The crappy part is that it ultimately affects the rest of us.
PhD in Arrowheadology
Dunnelon Dave comes to mind they they entrapped him Then there is the 4 corners 3-4 people died by there own hands
Bogel vs Jackson and Przygoda ,Art Gerber and the GE mound those are the ones off the top of my head.I don't know how many
more black eyes we can take as a community.They just keep dragging us all down with them
Life comes at you fast_______duck
Here's the Newspaper article on that one...
Originally Posted by Maumee Bay
i hate seeing people finding and selling thats not right.
Last edited by trevmma; 02-28-2013 at 01:55 PM.